Known and unknown things

For ages, man has been confronted with loads of questions. Millions of people tried to find answers but never got to the point where they could say they were satisfied.

There are things that we think we do know. But often when we grow up we come to see we did not know it really. And there are things that we know that we don’t know. Looking at this world and outer space there are so many things that we don’t know, that we don’t know. Those things that we don’t even know enough to know that we don’t know lay so far outside of our existing frame of reference that we can’t even imagine them. They are too far out of our box to hold in mind.

Most of the time we are already so busy with coping about the things we do seem to think are there in the unknown, that we do not have time to think further about those things which are the very far unknown. Lots of things are also matters we do not understand or do not seem to get a grip on to have a good view of them.

Many philosophers were busy with the unknown and wanted to have a clear view of the known. The American philosopher William James was fascinated by the unknown unknowns and assumed that what we knew about reality (and even what we can imagine to be true about reality) is always a tiny fraction of the totality of what is. Question also should be “what is reality”. These days people are confronted a lot by things which are not at all true. The greatest caller and accuser that others are fake is mostly presenting the world with a lot of fake news and very dangerous ideas. (Even when he, as 45th president of the U.S.A. is proud to tell the world he takes this or that product to avoid having Corona, and brings others in danger when they follow him.)

James was a free thinker who held loosely to what he thought was true and assumed that whatever seemed true now would yield to much bigger and more encompassing truths soon. Rather than defend what we know and expand on it slowly, he wanted to inquire directly into what we don’t already know by focusing on the anomalies and oddities that don’t fit into our current understanding.

James felt that our attention should be on the outer fringes of what we know. The next big idea doesn’t come from the center. It comes from the dim outer edge where the light of what we currently know fades into the blackness of the unknown beyond. James risked his career and his reputation as a scientist to study things that others thought were absurdities. As the president of the American Psychical Society he studied spirits, mediums, and life after death. Most scientists felt this was worthless, but James felt that it was out there on the fringes that we would find our way to new and unexpected vistas of truth.

{, How to Move Beyond Vicious Intellectualism}

For mankind has been created by an invisible Source, which is the Being. Without that Being there is no being at all. And that seems very difficult for lots of people to cope with. They want to have something they can touch and see. That is why so many people took themselves some visible god or gods, be it Jesus, cows or other animals or trees.
The two originators of the philosophy of Pragmatism – Charles Sanders Peirce and William James – were both very concerned with unknown unknowns. Both realized that human beings find it very difficult to even imagine that there could be things that we don’t know that we don’t know. Sure we know that there are things that we don’t know. I don’t know lots of scientific and cultural facts, the distance to the nearest star, the president of Monaco and so on. But I know there are such facts that I don’t know. (The film maker and columnist Errol Morris has written for the New York Times recently on the concept of unknown unknowns.)
We all should know that there is so much that we even do not know, which is a manifold of what we know. Are brain is just too limited to cope with everything there is and exists. Bounded unto this earth there is also space which goes beyond our dreams and far away from our own capacity to understand and know what is all there.
Problem with man is also that he thinks to have enough knowledge to understand or to analyse the things in the known and unknown.
Those things that we don’t even know enough to know that we don’t know lay so far outside of our existing frame of reference that we can’t even imagine them. They are too far out of our box to hold in mind. What endears me to Pragmatism more than anything else is the respect given to the existence of truth beyond our current ability to imagine. James and Peirce both assumed that what we knew about reality (and even what we can imagine to be true about reality) is only a tiny part of the totality of reality. And they envisioned a way of going about philosophy in light of this. They created a form of inquiry and a philosophical attitude that was militantly open ended. “Never block the road to inquiry” was Peirce’s motto. And William James railed against what he called vicious intellectualism.

Every day we are requested to look around us and to recognise the truth and untruth, the known and unknown. Each day we have to examine how we want to look at things, because that is going to decide if we are going to be able to go further to understand the unknown as well as the truth or reality.

We must take steps to dare to go out of our comfort zone to come to new visions and coming to known more unknown things. We have to dare to step outside of our own frame of reference. If we are consciously or unconsciously assuming that what we think is true actually is true and negates all other possibilities, our inquiry proceeds by expanding on what we already know. There is the trap for mankind that we focus on what we know and not many try to push at the borders, “creeping slowly out into the vast oceans of unknown that surrounds our small island of known”.

If we want to come to a better world we should dare to look at the darkness and see the light the divine Creator offers the world. He has also given His Word to look into and to find answers. Though not many people take the effort to read that Book of books and come to see more clearly in so many matters that bother us every day.

Danger also for mankind is that people are often so sure that what they think is the truth. Many dare not to question their own value or their own way of looking at things and their own analysation of matters. We should dare to question how we want to look at things. Certainly for looking at things we do not really understand we should consider which glasses we want to use.

James and Peirce wanted our thinking to be free. They wanted to hold on loosely to what we think is true by assuming that whatever we think is true now will yield tomorrow to a much bigger and more encompassing truth. Rather than defend what we know and expand on it slowly they wanted to inquire directly into what we don’t already know by focusing on the anomalies and oddities that don’t fit into our current understanding.

James felt that our attention should be on the outer fringes of what we know. The next big idea doesn’t come from the center. It comes from the dim outer edge where the light of what we currently know fades into the blackness of the unknown beyond. James risked his career and his reputation as a scientist to study things that others thought were absurdities.
{Vicious Intellectualism and the Reality of the Unknown, }

It is not that we have to know how it really is to come to believe. It can very well be that we do not know all the  facts, but may consider that there is some truth or some existence of that what we assume there to be. We have our own sensations and thoughts and can listen to others their thoughts, combining those ideas to form some other ideas, transpiring to come to certain conclusions. Though often we still can’t be sure we would have made the right conclusion.

People should know that even if we cannot point to direct irrefutable evidence of something we should not be afraid to believe in it. As such the belief in God is grounded.

Michael Shermer in his book “How We Believe” describes the mind as a “belief engine” that is constantly creating patterns of belief. From fractured information and sense impressions the mind weaves together plausible pictures of reality that we believe in.
{Belief and Fact, }

Question is also

How do we want to believe?

and

In what do we want to believe?

Most often man only wants to believe in what he can see and feel. For going to believe in certain matters, he wants direct irrefutable evidence. For the matter of God, the divine Creator that is very difficult. To explain God there are also not always common sense definitions. We must be honest, in the God matter, we mostly cannot point to direct irrefutable evidence. To convince others about the existence of God it is also difficult to give really direct evidence.

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Perhaps the following articles can make you think about the matter

  1. 3rd question: Does there exist a Divine Creator
  2. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #1 Many gods
  3. Is there no ‘proof’ for God? (And why that statement is not as smart as you might think.)
  4. Nature Is A Reflection Of God
  5. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #3 Transcendence or Surpassing other gods and man
  6. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #4
  7. 4th Question: Who or What is God
  8. A 1st reply to the 4th Question Who is God 1 A Creating Being to be worshipped

History’s Most Famous Execution

David Matthew a committed Christian since the age of twelve who reached the blessed age of 77 and was a schoolteacher for 14 years, then went into the Christian ministry, to be by now still very much on a journey of faith having become now a lot less dogmatic on doctrinal issues than he used to be, and a lot more Jesus-focused, always tried to keep up with current thinking on evangelical Christianity and wrote about it.

He has been disturbed to keep coming across once-keen Christians, including some church leaders, who, in the face of the challenges of raising questions about traditional views or proposing new ways of looking at certain biblical passages, have lost their faith altogether. He therefore wrote a.o. the book: “ A Poke In The Faith: Challenges to evangelical faith and how to survive them”.

He also looked at “Did God Kill Jesus?: Searching for love in history’s most famous execution by Tony Jones (HarperOne, 2015).” and asks “What happened to the cross“.   He also made a very nice “synopsis of the bookin which we found the following text we do like to share with you:

History’s Most Famous Execution

We should be clear on the basics about Jesus. Born in 6 or 4BCE, he was reared in Nazareth, in the fairly prosperous region of Galilee. He was, like Joseph, a tekton, ‘craftsman’ — not necessarily a carpenter. At the age of 30 he merged from obscurity into his public ministry. The core of his message was:
‘A new age is dawning — the rules by which followers of Yahweh lived their lives, while not irrelevant, are in need of
a serious overhaul; the spirit of those rules has been forgotten amid the attempts to keep those rules; I’ve come to redefine the relationship between God and humanity.’ (p70)
The ultimate rule, he taught, is love —which should extend even to one’s enemies.
The apocalyptic aspects of his teaching (a common and popular genre at the time) were directed chiefly at the political situations of his day. His miracles were not primarily to show his deity but to demonstrate God’s rule and show how it reaches out to the marginalised in society.
Jerusalem, where Jesus headed at the end of his ministry, was the centre of Jewish religious life. The Gospel writers focus on his last week there. Each of the four has its own angle on it. They focus on his trial, sufferings and death.
The Gospels show little interest in who actually killed Jesus (or, indeed, in what his death accomplished), but together they portray him as crucified by the Romans at the instigation of the Jewish leaders.
His resurrection led his followers to see his death cosmically and theologically, as an act of God.
At a human level, the early church put the blame chiefly on the Jews, while later centuries blamed them entirely, on the basis of Matt 27:25 — a verse which has had a terrible anti-Semitic legacy. The Gospels do tie Jesus’ death to the Passover. His passion takes place during the build-up to Passover. His last act is to eat the Passover meal with his followers. Like the original Passover lamb, the blood of Jesus liberates the people.
Paul, however, takes this much further…

Paul’s Cross-Centred Life

Paul got to know the Jesus story backwards: starting with the resurrected Lord. He never heard Jesus teach, nor witnessed his miracles (note of the editor: he might have witnessed some miracles, but we do not know that, but for sure he would have heard about them from first hand witnesses) , and never mentions his life — the focus is on his death and resurrection.
He sets these in the context of Israel’s story, a key feature of which was the law. Paul concludes that the law killed Jesus (Gal 3:13).

‘The cross’, for Paul, means ‘the gospel’, and it is the lens through which he interprets everything else. He opens up his thinking on it chiefly in Romans 3, and Romans 7 – 8. In Rom 3 God is faithful, and it is through Jesus, the faithful Israelite, that he fulfils his covenant promises. Jesus is the ‘sacrifice of atonement’ — literally the place of atonement, or Mercy Seat. In other words, he sums up everything that has gone before in Israel’s history. In Rom 7 – 8, all of human sin is concentrated in Jesus, and in him on the cross all sin is condemned.
If the Gospels show Jesus as the Passover sacrifice, Paul presents him as the Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) sacrifice. Both are valid emphases, but different.
According to Paul, in the cross God showed himself to be on the side of all human beings, Jews and Gentiles alike, and through the cross he shows us how to live right, recognising that we have been crucified with Jesus. We are called to live out the example that God set on the cross: self-limitation, humility and submission.

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Preceding

Review: What happened at the cross?

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Additional reading

  1. Christian values, traditions, real or false stories, pure and upright belief
  2. The saviour Jesus his human side
  3. Redemption #4 The Passover Lamb
  4. Death of Christ on the day of preparation
  5. Hebraic Roots Bible Matthew Chapter 28
  6. In the death of Christ, the son of God, is glorification
  7. Glory of God appearing in our character
  8. Hebraic Roots Bible Book of The Acts of the Apostles Chapter 2
  9. Matthew 2:7-12 – Pawns of Herod, the Magi Find the ‘Child’
  10. Anointing as a sign of Promotion
  11. Preparing for 14 Nisan
  12. 14 Nisan a day to remember #1 Inception
  13. 14 Nisan a day to remember #4 A Lamb slain
  14. A Messiah to die
  15. Lost senses or a clear focus on the one at the stake
  16. Jesus the “God-Man”: Really?

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Related

  1. Events That Changed History
  2. The Outrageous Story
  3. Torsten Jantsch on Jesus, the Savior: The Soteriology of the Lukan Doppelwerk
  4. Jesus Led The Way
  5. We Preach Christ Crucified …
  6. Did Jesus Christ die on Good Friday or not?
  7. The Mathematics of Caiaphas and Christ
  8. A New & Glorious Morn
  9. No Sweat, No Thorns, in New Jerusalem (2)
  10. The One You Pierced!
  11. Were you there when they laid him in the tomb?
  12. When God seemed to be an atheist
  13. No Need for Sleep in New Jerusalem
  14. Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me? … by Alice ..
  15. ”Moksha With Jesus Christ”

Review: What happened at the cross?

We never hear such thing as people having an “idea that God killed Jesus”, but with trinitarians such ideas are possible, the same as they think God gave Himself on the cross for the sins of the people.

Naturally when a church creates all sorts of false teachings, starting with making Jesus in their god, they continually have to create new false teachings, like Jesus having a mother than God would have to have a mother a.o..

It is curious to see how different protestant groups handle with the atonement and do not see that Jesus did not do his own will (what he would have done if he is God) but did the will of God, and as such gave himself as a ransom for all.

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To remember

Jesus is the most fully realized revelation of God that we’ve got, and what we can see of God in the life of Jesus is the perfect example of self-limitation and humility. (p238)

  • many Christians naively believe that the Payment Model (or penal substitution theory) = commonest view in Western world =  only one => ‘atonement wars’
  • Tony Jones, associated with the ‘emergent’ stream of Christianity, his book sets out all the major (plus a few minor) theories of the atonement and tries to reach a balanced assessment of each one.
  • God’s with us, expressed in the cross, => ours with him. = what the atonement is really all about.
  • Trinitarians must believe God is by nature self-limiting, choosing to use his sovereign freedom to unite himself to humanity in the person of Jesus, and especially in the sufferings of Calvary.
  • Some believe that the frequent emphasis on a bloodthirsty God, marked by punishment and sending folk to hell, is one reason for the decline of Christianity in some of its historic bastions.
  • rivalries developed, leading to violence. Sacrifice developed as a safety-valve: violence was perpetrated on an innocent victim, making everyone feel better, at least for a while. Meanwhile, the person sacrificed was perceived as almost divine, because their death had had such a powerful violence-quenching effect on the society
  • Nowhere does the OT law explicitly condemn child sacrifice (the closest it comes is Lev 18:21), though the practice was common among Israel’s neighbours.
    But Israel did not practise it (Jephthah’s killing of his daughter is a rare exception).
    Animal sacrifice, by contrast, soon became an integral part of Israel’s worship, and it was the blood that made it valid
    (Lev 17:10-16). Two kinds of blood sacrifices were seen as appeasing God: the guilt offering and the sin offering (the kind offered at Yom Kippur). These continued through the desert years, and continued when the Israelites were settled in the land, becoming more elaborate, in spite of the prophets’ condemnation (e.g. Hos 6:6). Their practice continued into the time of Jesus.
  • So God took something that humans were already doing — being violent and shedding blood — and made it sacred. He
    went along with them where they were at, but did not see it as the ideal, and he took human sacrifice out of the picture.
    The sacrificial system controls violence, giving it boundaries.
  • occasional verse talks of God’s anger at particular sins or human behavior that God considers an abomination, > overarching message of scripture is clear = God created us, God loves us, + God wants the best for us. => Bible = rife with stories of God going out of his way to set people on the right path — despite our failures, despite our sins.
  • A lot of us have grown increasingly uncomfortable with the regnant interpretation of Jesus’ death as primarily the propitiation of a wrathful God. 1. we don’t experience God as uber-wrathful toward us. 2. it simply doesn’t make sense that God would game the whole system so that he has to kill his own son just to vitiate this wrath. It just doesn’t smell right. (p26)
  • Calvin + others upped the ante from Anselm => not just that Jesus made our payment for us, = he pays a penalty on our behalf — a penalty that we cannot pay. In theological jargon, this is how it goes from substitution to penal substitution, the “penal” connoting the penalty. This change happened during the Reformation, and it remains popular today. (p113)

  • supposed to learn about love from God => idea God predestined us to sin = results in our eternal damnation + requires God’s Son to die on the cross, teaches very little about love. (p132)

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Additional reading

  1. Atonement And Fellowship 6/8
  2. Atonement And Fellowship 7/8
  3. In the death of Christ, the son of God, is glorification
  4. Omniscient God opposite a not knowing Jesus
  5. Redemption #2 Biblical solution
  6. Redemption #4 The Passover Lamb

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Further related

  1. 15/01/2018: Atonement 10
  2. Facets Of Redemption
  3. Mimesis and atonement
  4. A better way to view the atonement of Christ: Christus Victor
  5. Athanasius as Interpreter of the Trinity: Why the Nicene Creed and Penal Substitution Are Incompatible, Part 2 | New Humanity Institute
  6. Thinking Outloud: Atonement
  7. Triune Atonement in Westminster
  8. How to Understand the Once for All Sacrifice of Jesus Christ
  9. What the crucifiers didn’t understand
  10. Penal Substitutionary Atonement Exemplified In Film
  11. Irenaeus and the Problem of (Greater) New Testament Wrath
  12. Penal Substitutionary Atonement – a myopic narrative.
  13. Review: Tom Wright on the Crucifixion

Dave's Deliberations

This book’s title may mislead you. It is really an examination of the main theories of the atonement; the idea that God killed Jesus on the cross is just one aspect of the Payment Model of the atonement. The book is:

Did God Kill Jesus?: Searching for love in history’s most famous execution by Tony Jones (HarperOne, 2015).   

dgkjlargeThe ‘atonement wars’ are raging right now, in spite of the fact that many Christians naively believe that the Payment Model (or penal substitution theory) that they have been taught—and which remains the commonest view in the Western world—is the only one there is. Jones’s book sets out all the major (plus a few minor) theories of the atonement and tries to reach a balanced assessment of each one.

The major ones he designates the Payment, Victory, Magnet, Divinity and Mirror models. He assesses each against the answers it offers to…

View original post 3,084 more words

Many were made sinners through one man and justified by one man

All our sins are our own, but for salvation purposes, as Paul says, God

“calleth the things that are not, as though they were.” (Romans 8:17)

And, it is Paul who also wrote:

“through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners.” (Romans 5:19)

In context, “the many” is in reference to all of Adam’s descendants, in contrast with Adam, who is only one person. In God’s sight, the many were made sinners through one man, so that

“through the obedience of one man the many will be justified.”

While justification [being made straight, righteous] is now reckoned through faith in the sacrificed blood of Jesus, justification will, in the age to come, be reckoned, or counted, to all who died while unjustified, otherwise there would be no resurrection of the unjust; there would be no resurection of judgment. (John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15) All unbelievers in this age would remain dead for all eternity. However, because the sacrifice of Jesus to God for the sin of world provides the price to ‘ransom all from the power of sheol,” and ‘redeem all from death’ (Hosea 13:14), not just those justified by faith in this age will be raised in the last day, but all the dead in the sea, death and hades (sheol of Hosea 13:14) will be raised. (Revelation 20:13) In this way, Jesus died for the sins, not just for those who believe in this age, but the whole world, thus releasing them from the condemnation of death, so that they may be raised in the last day. — John 1:19; 4:42; 12:47,48; 1 John 2:2; 4:14.

If, however, the final judgment upon mankind is due to each individual’s sin in this age, this would mean that the one sinless man, Christ Jesus, could in no way satisfy God’s justice, for every man would be under a separate condemnation for his own sin, and thus if there have been 40 billions sinners, there would have to be 40 billion non-sinners to sacrifice themselves to offset the wages of sin for those 40 billion sinners. By condemning all in one man, only one sinless man is needed to provide a sacrifice to God so that God “would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” — Romans 3:26.

See the study on Ronald Day Senior Ronald Day Senior website:
Divine Economy in the Ransom
http://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2017/05/economy.html

As there is a lot of division in Christendom there is too in Judaism

After a three week period of mourning during which the Jews remembered the series of events that led to the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem and the destruction of God’s people’s first Temple on that date in the year 586 BCE. we still do not have any reason to be very happy.

The last few days we could take some time to remember also the year 70 CE when the Roman legions pushed through the crumbling defences of Jerusalem to desecrated and destroy the rebuilt second Temple, as they crushed a rebellion that shook the heart of the Empire and drove the Chosen people of God into exile, but also to remember many of the most painful moments Jews had to undergo in camps and pogroms.

Many lovers of God showed their faithfulness to the Most High Elohim. They did everything to join with brethren and sisters and feel united in the family of the Patriarch Abraham.

On Tisha b’Av, many Jews felt most keenly their sense of powerlessness and their feeling of separation from their spiritual centre in their ancestral homeland. It was the day on which we acknowledged the emotional and spiritual pain of God’s people‘s exile.

Today, no longer in exile, when there is such an opening to see the Holy Land becoming a reality, so many Jews having returned to the Eretz Ysrael or Land of Israel, it looks like there is even more division than in the previous times of worries.

There are some groups who consider it not necessary any more to remember all the evil that has happened to the Jewish people. Even in the light that many may see a brighter future we should know and keep remembering what happened in the past. Jews and real lovers of God should understand that despite the many setbacks the Chosen People underwent, their struggles, their real loses and deep suffering, the Jewish people, have overcome the obstacles fate has set before them.

The Fast of the Ninth of Av should in a way stay a day of mourning to commemorate the many tragedies that have befallen the Jewish people, many of which have occurred on the ninth of Av.  But in these times we also should open our eyes and receive a ‘slap in our face’ because there is something going on in this world by those who call themselves Jew. As in this world where we see many who call themselves ‘Christian‘ calling themselves names and fighting against each other, we can find also persons who call themselves Jew doing things against the Will of God, like creating hate between people or excluding people as if they are the pest.

Rabbi Ruth Adar, or the Coffee Shop Rabbi, has her eyes also open, seeing the division in the Jewish communities she also felt sick at heart this Tisha B’Av.

The people’s spirit might have gone in so many varied directions whereby some of them might have us wonder if they are not going away from the path laid in front of them by the Most High Elohim.

The Coffee Shop Rabbi writes

” The Jewish community is horribly divided. We are divided in many ways, and we poke many fingers at one another, scolding.

Some Haredim see the Kotel as their synagogue. From their point of view, whatever they need to do to maintain the sanctity of that place as they define sanctity is justified.

Some other Jews believe that the Kotel belongs to all Jews everywhere and because the Haredim have said and done ugly things, whatever they say about the Haredim is justified. {Sick and Tired}

The world has come to know so many different Judaic groups and various movements with very different ideas. Years ago between Jews there was a feeling, a sense, a rich swirl of emotion, a deep notion of Jewish communality. This is what the Talmud means when it says,

“all Jews are responsible one for the other” (Shavuot 39a).

But today it looks more that there is egotism and greed that has darkened the hearts of many Jews, not willing to be open for others. Perhaps today only a few (or more?) Jews are swimming upstream and striving for peace between all people living around Jerusalem, which in the end shall have to become the capital of the Holy Land, for all those who love and go for the Divine Creator. It was the wish of the Bore and it shall become so, whatever man wants to go against it.

In Israel there are Jews living who have put aside their faith in God and have become atheists calling other Jews to fight against the enemies of their state. In Israel as well as in other places around the world we also, strangely enough can find Jews who have taken a three-headed god as their god. Though they take Jesus (Jeshua) as their god, they clearly do not follow the teachings of that Nazarene rebbe who taught peace and tolerance. We can wonder if one may call such ‘Messianic Jews‘ really Jews. Opposite to them are real Messianic Jews, who stay faithful to the Jewish belief in One True God, the God of Israel, Jacob, Isaac, Jesus and his disciples, but have taken Jesus as the Messiah. But they are ‘shredded’ and hated by the trinitarian ‘Jews’ and ‘Christians’. By other Jews they are spoken of as traitors to the faith. Others speak about the Conservative Jews as the wrong believers, whilst others talk about the Reform, the Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox Jews, the Liberal or other sorts of Jews, as if they are “monsters”.

Some Jews act as if Jews of color don’t even exist.

Some Jews think other Jews don’t “look Jewish enough.”

Some Jews say Jews who became Jewish as adults aren’t really Jews. {Sick and Tired}

We can see that Judaism has become sick in the same bed as Christendom. There too has come such a shims that several groups claim the other group may not call themselves Jew. It has even come so far that Israel’s rabbinical authorities have compiled a blacklist of overseas rabbis whose authority they refuse to recognize when it comes to certifying the Jewishness of someone who wants to get married in Israel.

Image may contain: 2 people, beard

Israel’s Sephardi Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef (L) and Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau. Moti Milrod – The Chief Rabbinate having released a list of foreign “kosher” rabbis whose conversions it recognizes and whose signatures it accepts on documents attesting to various aspects of personal status.

The Christian community and the Jewish community should remember

However, considering that the people during the Second Temple period were engaged in Torah study, observance of mitzvot, and acts of kindness, why was the Second Temple destroyed?

It was destroyed due to the fact that there was baseless hatred during that period. This comes to teach you that the sin of baseless hatred is equivalent to the three transgressions: Idol worship, forbidden sexual relations and bloodshed. – Yoma 9b {Sick and Tired}

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Preceding article

Women their education and chances to become a parliamentary

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Additional reading

  1. Converso Involvement in the Sabbatai Zevi Movement
  2. Difference between a Messianic Gentile, a Messianic Jew and a Christian
  3. The modern Messianic Jewish movement
  4. Today’s thought “Ability to circumcise your heart” (May 13)

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Further reading

  1. Synagogues and Sanctuary: It’s Time to Get Politicized
  2. On anti-Semitism, anti-Islam and fictitious alliances in U.S.
  3. UK’s chief rabbi: Labour ‘failed Jewish community’ with Livingstone suspension
  4. Happy Passover – Celebrate freedom
  5. The Insults Are No Accident
  6. Mimouna night in CSL
  7. Remembrance: Candle Lights For Fallen In Holocaust
  8. Canada’s oldest Jewish community welcomes new addition – a history museum
  9. Now Available: Wrestling in the Daylight 2.0!
  10. Cote Saint-Luc Rabbi represents Canada at Conference of Cardinals, Bishops and Rabbinic Leaders
  11. Israel must honor God or the Rule of Law is meaningless
  12. Jewish Security Funds In State Budget Leave Others Feeling Excluded
  13. New Holocaust museum will preserve lost Jewish identity and history in Thessaloniki
  14. Economic roots of Jewish persecutions in Medieval Europe
  15. B’nai Brith recognizes Cote Saint-Luc in fight against racism, anti-semtism, discrimination
  16. A Community for Secular Jews
  17. Marking the Boundaries
  18. The Real Wall Problem: When Will Diaspora Jews Fight For Palestinians?
  19. God-Optional Judaism
  20. Incredible speech in UN: “Where are your Jews?”
  21. What is Yom Yerushalayim and what does it consist of?
  22. #Navarra University listening to the GM of Spain Jewish Communities Council(#
  23. #Jews in #Zimbabwe
  24. Toledo: Sephardic Culture at the University
  25. Israeli Blacklist of US Rabbis Points to Widening Rift — The Rabbis Deemed ‘Kosher’ for Conversions by Israel’s Rabbinate: The Full List
  26. El Tribunal Superior de Justicia de Madrid rechaza el Boicot contra Israel
  27. Macabiah: The Zionist Olympics
  28. Malaga will have more than two years with a museum devoted to Spanish Jewish thought.
  29. The invisible Jewish population of Udine
  30. “Qualitavely Jews are not a minority”
  31. Potential new location found for CSL synagogue
  32. The Small But Mighty Greek Jewish Community of Thessaloniki -The Forward
  33. Chechnya’s Jewish community is angry at Israel… but doesn’t seem to exist
  34. French Jews ‘will have to give up dual Israeli citizenship’ if Marine Le Pen wins presidential election

Certain Catholics claiming that the power of the priest is equal to that of Jesus Christ

Unbelievable what we encountered to day at some websites to which was reacted, by repeating it

The power of the priest is equal to that of Jesus Christ.

At the particular website (reacting to it) they also quote some text where it is said that

the priest, reaches up into heaven, and brings Christ down from his throne and places Him upon our alter to be offered up again as the victim for the sins of man. {Catholic Mass vs Biblical Salvation}

We never would think people could be so pretentious to think they have more power than Jesus and can bring him down form heaven.  Though it looks like the people writing at that website sincerely mean what they are writing. Even when they think Jesus is God they think they have so much power, not to say even more power, than their god, able to bring him down and to be equal to their god. They even go so far to consider it possible and righteous that their god would bow down for them.

The priest brings Christ down from heaven and renders him present on our alter as the eternal victim for the sins of man….not once, but a thousand times. Christ, the eternal omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the catholic priest. {Catholic Mass vs Biblical Salvation}

They even have no scruples to say

Lets compare this breathtaking scenario to what the bible says;

Who needeth daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins and then for the people, for this he did ONCE, when He offered up Himself. {Catholic Mass vs Biblical Salvation}

They do seem to miss the point that it was man, Jesus Christ, who offered himself up. they, who take Jesus as their God, do not seem to understand what it meant for Jesus not to do his own will, but to do the will of his heavenly Father, the God of Abraham, Who is a singular eternal Spirit.

Though they themselves quote the Bible saying

But this MAN, after He had offered one sacrifice for the sins of man forever, sat down at the right hand of God forever. {Catholic Mass vs Biblical Salvation}

They do not seem to see nor understand that Jesus is now made higher than angels, having been lower than angels before, and now been taken up into the heavens to sit next to God and not in God His place, not having taken over from God but been authorised to act in the name of God, like he was authorised before here on earth.

They also seem to miss the point that

11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation).

They also seem to miss the point of Jeremiah writing down that this sent one from God was going to cleanse the world from all its iniquity by which man have sinned against the Most High Elohim, and that it is the Most High Divine Maker Who will pardon all their iniquities by which they have sinned against Him and by which they have transgressed against God. {Jeremiah 33:8}

It is incredible that those Catholic priests may think they are able to be equal to Christ who appeared as a high priest of the good things to come and entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation. {Hebrews 9:11}

 

They may think that in their temples or churches, made with human hands, they have a building from God, but they do forget The God does not like to see any graven images of Him nor other gods where people bow in front of them or which are worshipped.  How then can their church be a temple for or of God?

We do know they like their churches decorated with saints and so called religious pictures.

The richness of the atmosphere, packed as the building is, with imagery of biblical scenes and saints, both oil paintings and murals, together with vast amounts of gold and silver (in colour, but I suspect real metal too, in leaf form), and the music – taken together it overwhelmed me. {Being Catholic}

writes Struans.

They are proud to have a

Romanish practice of bringing down Christ from heaven to sacrifice him again and again in order to relieve those in attendance from their sins means the Romanish religion says that Christs sacrifice on Calvary wasn’t enough.

but do not seem to fully understand the implications of them not accepting that Jesus ransom offering would not be good enough for God and that they as priest can make such better offerings each time over and over again.

Though he considers that priests are also Christs who can equally forgive sins (forgetting that it was not Jesus who forgave sins but his heavenly Father). He further writes

Cultural conditioning did not stop Our Lord from doing anything during His incarnation on earth nor has the Holy Spirit moved the Church to change what Christ established in His male-only priesthood. That which was begun in the OT Church and perfected in His NT Church is the Will of the Father and instituted by Christ Himself. {The Male Priesthood: Culturally Conditioned?}

Philip Augustine writes

we, the Charity of Christ do not invent our own faith–which is what someone is doing with “I” statements. We receive it from God, and we do so through the Church that Christ founded. Many will reject this sentiment, but it is because just like the Hebrews in the desert calling to go back to Pharaoh, they prefer the chains of slavery–the chains of the world–rather than the liberation of the God the Father Almighty.

On which Jamie Carter reacts

Jesus chose twelve men, mostly from around the Galilee, mostly fisherman, though one was a tax collector and a doctor, I think. They were all Jewish. If you’re saying that because Jesus chose men that only men may serve as priests, then you need to remember that he chose Jewish Galileans who spoke with distinctive accents. If you’re saying it’s not necessary that priests be Jewish Galileans with accents, then I’d agree that it’s not necessary that they be men either.

Grandpa Zeke finds

to insist that the priesthood is limited to males, as the Catholic Church does, is not limiting the power of God’s word and is possible to implement, no matter the ethnicity or language of the priest.

God himself differentiates between men and women, in Genesis 2 for instance. It might be worth a re-read of Gen 2 in light of this discussion. This does not demean women, it merely faces the reality, both physically and spiritual, that God created men and women equally in His image, but different. (We are not all clones of each other, every individual human being is different and still a child of God made in his image.)

But the priests also made in the image of God may not consider themselves to be Christs nor to be equal to Christ and most of all certainly not to be equal to God.

The Three Ages of the Interior Life - Volume 2 - Reverend Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P._html_57ca4d8e

 

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Additional reading

  1. When not seeing or not finding a biblically sound church
  2. Which Christian sect is the only true Christian church?
  3. Not everyone in the churches of Christ are “ungodly”
  4. Church has to grow through witness, not by proselytism
  5. Hello America and atheists
  6. Engaging the enemy

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Further reading

  1. Who Is Melchizedek | Bible Question
  2. Jesus Christ’s High Priesthood was of the Order of Melchizedek
  3. Gospel Doctrine 2017 – Lesson 25: Priesthood: “The Power of Godliness”
  4. Responses to Jesus Christ’s High Priesthood
  5. What is your vocation?
  6. “Lord Jesus, Grant Us More Priests!” – Homily by Fr. Nathan
  7. Ordinations, or the lack thereof – an update
  8. Ordinations: Good men so happy to be of service to the Holy Family
  9. Are All Christians Priests? The Biblical Evidence for Priests Separate from the Laity
  10. Jesus & triple-taps on a priest’s day off
  11. Catholic Priest By the Side of Congressman Scalise
  12. Ye Shall Have Power – Moroni 2:2
  13. The Branch — Zechariah 6.
  14. A Friar Life: Fr. Joe
  15. original therapy
  16. Abram and Lot Part
  17. What a difference a year makes…
  18. Priestly Ordination of Deacon Dennis
  19. Prophets have Melchizedek Priesthood
  20. Lines of Authority
  21. Jesus Overthrows a Corrupt Priesthood
  22. This Catholic priest’s Glock 19 target practice: Rope swinging video
  23. A Royal Priesthood?
  24. Saturday Sermon and a Special Mass
  25. Bruce R. McConkie Explains The Revelation On The Priesthood
  26. What Will Endure?
  27. Men Raised Up
  28. “The Latin Mass Has Made Me a Better Priest.”
  29. Healings, Heroes, and Heartaches
  30. Baptist Church Problems with Race
  31. Congratulations to Newly Ordained Priests
  32. 7 7 7 – Summorum Pontificum: the 10th anniversary in Lourdes. “Just wear dental guards, Father George!”
  33. A Heroic Priesthood 
  34. BBC’s #Broken: 5 things it revealed about Christianity and Faith
  35. The search for shephers: Challenges
  36. Voices and Faith of Women
  37. Women and the Priesthood
  38. She’s my vicar
  39. Sustaining Church Leaders
  40. Famous Exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth on How ‘Smoke’ of the Devil Entered the Church

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Dying for or instead

Tragically, the simple words “Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8) have been grossly misunderstood as meaning that Christ died instead of us.

There are a number of connections between Romans 5 and 1 Cor. 15 (e.g. v. 12 = 1 Cor. 15:21; v. 17 = 1 Cor. 15:22). “Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8) is matched by “Christ died for our sins” (1 Cor. 15:3). His death was in order to make a way whereby we can gain forgiveness of our sins; it was in this sense that “Christ died for us”. The word “for” does not necessarily mean ‘instead of’; Christ died “for our sins”, not ‘instead of’ them. Because of this, Christ can “make intercession” for us (Heb. 7:25) – not ‘instead of’ us. Neither does “for” mean ‘instead of’ in Heb. 10:12 and Gal. 1:4.

Jesus is Our Representative Not Our Substitute

– Peter Foster

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Faith coming by hearing and sent preacher gift from God

“Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Rom. 10:17)

The Apostle Paul in this verse tells us that no one can believe unless they hear. In the same context, he also says that no one can hear unless “a preacher” is “sent.” (vss. 14,15) Thus, without question the “sent preacher” is a gift from Yahweh, the Author of Salvation.

Faith can be considered a gift from Yahweh.

“We have knowledge of Yahweh, and this knowledge, which is granted us as a grace or favor, brings us to the place where we are enabled to exercise faith.”

Faith in a great measure rests upon knowledge. Knowledge reveals Yahweh’s character as our Great Savior, the Divine Revelation makes known to us certain facts respecting Yahweh’s purposes, and we see the purposes thus outlined to be in harmony with the character of Yahweh.

This enables one to believe the promises; and believing them, we are enabled to act upon them.

“This is faith. Our faith, while it is of ourselves in the sense that we must exercise it, is of Yahweh in the sense that He supplies the necessary elements from which that faith is to be compounded.”— What Pastor Russell Said, pp. 266,267

Everything received now, and which the world of humanity will receive in the next age, soon to come, is because of Yahweh’s Grace. Yahweh has given us opportunities to hear about Him through His Word and through those who have explained that Word to us.

And without our Redeemer Jesus, who is Yahweh’s appointed Representative, who Yahweh sent to us to show us the way to Him.

Thus, through Jesus Christ our Head we learn the Almighty Heavenly Father’s Character and come to know the true Savior.

Jesus always pointed us to his God and our God, his Father and our Father. Jesus did the will of Yahweh and willing because he loved his Almighty Creator and died to pay the price required as his part of salvation and we love him for his great sacrifice for our behalf, and not only ours, but the whole world of humanity.

Jesus covers us with his Sin Offering merit and without it, we would never be able to grow in the Grace our Heavenly Father so much wants us to have.

May we never lose our faith. It is faith that made us acceptable to Yahweh, and it is faith that insures our ultimate salvation.

“The just shall live by faith: but if any draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

“This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith!”
(Heb. 10:38,39; 1 Tim. 6:12;
1 John 5:4)

John Harris (the Word of God is more precious than gold) HeChar

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Additional reading

  1. Faith
  2. Faith and works
  3. Faith moving mountains

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Further reading

  1. The Sin Offering
  2. All That Jesus Is Before God, You Are
  3. Numbers 7
  4. Leviticus 9
  5. SOAP Journal – 02 February 2017 (Leviticus 4:16-18)
  6. 20 February 2017 Bible Reading
  7. Atonement as Liturgy: The Cross Re-examined
  8. Catrina’s Understanding of Leviticus 1-13

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A Father Who begat a son

Documents of the Christian Church 2nd Ed 1963 Henery Bettenson
(quotes from Arius and his followers)

“If, said he, the Father begat the Son, he that was begotten had a beginning of existence; hence it is clear that there was a [a time] when the son was not.”
“The Son of God is from what is not and there was [a time] when he was not; saying also that the Son of God, in virtue of his free will, is capable of evil and good, and calling him a creature and a work.”

The Rise of Christianity 1985 W.H.C. Frend

“If the Father begat the son, there must be when he was not. He could not therefore be coeternal with the Father.”[said by Arius]

Man’s Religions 1968 John B. Noss

Arius held that Christ, . . . was a created being; he was made like other creatures out of nothing, . . . The Son, he argued, had a beginning, while God was without beginning.”

The Church in History 1964 B. K. Kuiper

Arius püspök.jpg

The Christian priest of Alexandria, Egypt, Arius arguing for the supremacy of God the Father, and that the Son had a beginning as a true Firstborn

“The heathen believe in many gods. Arius thought that to believe that the Son is God as well as that the Father is God would mean that there are two Gods, and that therefore the Christians would be falling back into heathenism.”
Arius believed that Jesus Christ was born, that he had a beginning, he believed that Jesus Christ was the created Son, not the Creator, and for taking the Word of God literally he was excommunicated and anathematised. Starting with Nimrod in ancient Babylon until today man has stubbornly rebelled against the doctrine of one God.

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14a For thou shalt worship no other god:

The trinity is idolatry, it puts Jesus Christ as a god before God.

Forgers of the Word 1983 Victor Paul Wierwille

“To say Jesus Christ is God the Son is idolatry. To say Jesus is the Son of God is truth.”

Forgers of the Word 1983 Victor Paul Wierwille

“To say Jesus Christ is God the Son is idolatry. To say Jesus is the Son of God is truth.”

Man’s Religions John B. Noss 1968

“The doctrine of the trinity he [Michael Servetus] felt to be a Catholic perversion and himself to be a good New Testament Christian in combating it. . . According to his conception, a trinity composed of three distinct persons in one God is a rational impossibility;”

Saying that Jesus Christ is not God does not degrade Jesus Christ it merely sets things in their proper order so we can know God and worship Him in spirit and truth.

We can no longer be lulled to sleep by the bizarre, complex, confusing, ritualistic, mysterious Babylonian traditions of trinitarian doctrines. We must come back to God’s Word and worship the one true God- the Holy Father of Jesus Christ.

Andrey Davidson

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Preceding articles

People Seeking for God 2 Human interpretations

People Seeking for God 3 Laws and directions

People Seeking for God 4 Biblical terms

Christianity without the Trinity

Being Religious and Spiritual 5 Gnostic influences

Roman, Aztec and other rites still influencing us today

Application of old pagan concept of trinity

The imaginational war against Christmas

Entrance of a king to question our position #1 Coming in the Name of the Lord

Entrance of a king to question our position #2 Who do we want to see and to be

Joseph Priestley To the Point

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Additional articles

  1. Blindness in the Christian world
  2. Vision blurred by cumulative burden of divisions
  3. Does there have to be a Holy Trinity Mystery
  4. Finding and Understanding Words and Meanings
  5. Creator and Blogger God 7 A Blog of a Book 1 Believing the Blogger
  6. Genesis 1:26 God said “Let us make”
  7. Have no other gods besides Me
  8. Written and translated by different men over thousands of years
  9. A god who gave his people commandments and laws he knew they never could keep to it
  10. For those who believe Jesus is God
  11. For Getting to know Jesus
  12. Objects around the birth and death of Jesus
  13. The Son can do nothing of his own accord
  14. Nazarene Commentary Matthew 3:13-17 – Jesus Declared God’s Son at His Baptism
  15. Nazarene Commentary Matthew 4:5-7 – A Temptation to Test God
  16. God son king and his subjects
  17. Authority given to him To give eternal life
  18. Americans really thinking the Messiah Christ had an English name
  19. Focussing on the man Jesus and the relationship with God
  20. It happened on May 2 295
  21. 1691 years ago on June the 20th in 325
  22. A Triple God or simply a rather simple One God
  23. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine
  24. 19° century London and Unitarians
  25. Afraid to see the man of the heavens opened
  26. Minimizing the power of God’s Force the Holy Spirit
  27. Jewish and Christian traditions of elders
  28. Renewed Catholic-Jewish relations still with a blemish
  29. Immanuel looking at Jewish and Christian visions
  30. Do you purpose that your mouth will not transgress
  31. Solstice, Saturnalia and Christmas-stress
  32. Responses to Radical Muslims and Radical Christians
  33. What is the truth asked also Pontius Pilate
  34. In Defense of the truth
  35. Forbidden Fruit in the Midst of the Garden 4
  36. More Mexicans start questioning Catholic doctrine and the concept of the Trinity
  37. President of the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations considers of undoing the Unitarian idea

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Related articles

  1. Jesus’ Incarnation: Created or Divine?
  2. Phil Pringle peddles Word of Faith & Arian heresy: “God spoke Christ into creation before anything else”
  3. Ignatius and Submission According to the Flesh
  4. Mini Episode 3: The Nicene Creed
  5. #341 – A History of the Catholic Church – The Presbyter Of Alexandria
  6. #342 – A History Catholic of the Catholic Church – The First Ecumenical Council
  7. #343 – A History of the Catholic Church – The Nicene Creed
  8. #351 – A History of the Catholic Church – Nicenes and Eusebians
  9. #352 – A History of the Catholic Church – Anathematizations and Glorifications
  10. Today in Church History: May 20
  11. Konsili Nicea: Yesus Diangkat Menjadi Tuhan
  12. Athanasius and the dodgy worship leader
  13. Celebrate Christmas If You A Real G
  14. Episode 5: Arius
  15. Ep10: Is Jesus Fully Man?
  16. Vision of Peter of Alexandria
  17. Patriarchy Preachers Teach that Jesus Is a Lesser God
  18. Embrace the Mystery: Does all of theology “make sense”
  19. Heresies – Arianism
  20. Does It Really Matter What We Believe?
  21. The Fullness of Time
  22. Sectarianism in the church
  23. TDISH: Scientist and Heretic
  24. Servetus, Socinus and Sola Scriptura
  25. Punching Above His Weight
  26. Feast of Sebastian Castellio (March 20)

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Application of old pagan concept of trinity

Many who believe in the trinity are surprised to learn that the idea of divine beings existing as trinities or triads long predated Christianity. Yet the evidence is abundantly documented. So let us have a look at some of the evidence.

Marie Sinclair, Countess of Caithness, in her 1876 book Old Truths in a New Light, states,

“It is generally, although erroneously, supposed that the doctrine of the Trinity is of Christian origin. Nearly every nation of antiquity possessed a similar doctrine. [The early Catholic theologian] St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, ‘All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity’.” — (p. 382)

Notice how the following quotes document belief in a divine trinity in many regions and religions of the ancient world.

Sumeria

Ur III Sumerian cuneiform for An or Anu, the earliest attested Sky Father deity. In Sumerian religion, he was also “King of the Gods“, “Lord of the Constellations, Spirits and Demons”, and “Supreme Ruler of the Kingdom of Heaven”, where Anu himself wandered the highest Heavenly Regions.

“The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu‘s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods.” — (The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54, 55)

Babylonia

“The ancient Babylonians recognised the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity.” — (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22, 23)

India

Purana or “ancient, old” Manuscript

“The Puranas, one of the Hindoo Bibles of more than 3,000 years ago, contain the following passage:

‘O ye three Lords! know that I recognise only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.’

The three gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva], becoming manifest to him, replied,

‘Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.’

Hence the triangle was adopted by all the ancient nations as a symbol of the Deity … Three was considered among all the pagan nations as the chief of the mystical numbers, because, as Aristotle remarks, it contains within itself a beginning, a middle, and an end. Hence we find it designating some of the attributes of almost all the pagan gods.” (Sinclair, pp. 382, 383)

Greece

“In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote:

‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’.” — (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197, 198)

Egypt

“The Hymn to Amun decreed that

Re-Horakhty.svg

Re, also spelled Ra or Pra, in ancient Egyptian religion, god of the sun and one of the creator gods, who rose from the ocean of chaos on the primeval hill, creating himself and then in turn engendering eight other gods.

‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’

and that

‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.’

… This is a statement of trinity, the three chief gods of Egypt subsumed into one of them, Amon. Clearly, the concept of organic unity within plurality got an extraordinary boost with this formulation. Theologically, in a crude form it came strikingly close to the later Christian form of plural Trinitarian monotheism.” — (Simson Najovits, Egypt, Trunk of the Tree, Vol. 2, 2004, pp. 83, 84)

Other areas

Many other areas had their own divine trinities.

In Greece they were Zeus, Poseidon and Adonis. The Phoenicians worshipped Ulomus, Ulosuros and Eliun. Rome worshipped Jupiter, Mars and Venus. In Germanic nations they were called Wodan, Thor and Fricco. Regarding the Celts, one source states,

“The ancient heathen deities of the pagan Irish, Criosan, Biosena, and Seeva, or Sheeva, are doubtless the Creeshna [Krishna], Veeshnu [Vishnu], [or the all-inclusive] Brahma, and Seeva [Shiva], of the Hindoos.” — (Thomas Maurice, The History of Hindostan, Vol. 2, 1798, p. 171)

Arthur Edward Pearse Brome Weigall, English Egyptologist, stage designer, journalist and author, at the Temple of Edfu, before 1913

The deception is beautifully seen by the astonishing admission of Arthur Weigall who himself is a Trinitarian. Egyptologist Arthur Weigall summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his book:

“It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan …
The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth …
The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One …The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third ‘Person,’ co-equal with the other ‘Persons’…The idea of the Spirit being co-equal with God was not generally recognised until the second half of the Fourth Century A.D… . In the year 381 the Council of Constantinople added to the earlier Nicene Creed a description of the Holy Spirit as

‘the Lord, and giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified.’

Andrey Davidson, Kingdom of God – Arius’ non-trinitarian Christian  theology

(Arian Church Facebook Group)

Christian Doctrine of the Trinity

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Preceding

Roman, Aztec and other rites still influencing us today

Christianity without the Trinity

Next: A Father Who begat a son

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Additional reading

  1. Tri-union gods and Pagan, Christian, Muslim and Jewish views on the Creator God
  2. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #1 Many gods
  3. A Triple God or simply a rather simple One God
  4. Trinity matter
  5. Trinity – History
  6. How did the Trinity Doctrine Develop
  7. History of the acceptance of a three-in-one God
  8. Altered to fit a Trinity
  9. The Trinity – the truth
  10. Trinitarian philosophy
  11. Does there have to be a Holy Trinity?
  12. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine
  13. How do trinitarians equate divine nature
  14. The Great Trinity debate
  15. Newton not believing in the Holy Trinity
  16. Inspired Word
  17. The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #1
  18. The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #2
  19. Who Is Jesus? God, or unique Man?
  20. Jesus the “God-Man”: Really?
  21. The saviour Jesus his godly side
  22. The saviour Jesus his human side
  23. Omniscient God opposite a not knowing Jesus
  24. Jesus Christ being dispatched as the Figurehead of a Religion
  25. The Christ, the anointed of God
  26. Challenging claim
  27. Challenging claim 1 Whose word
  28. Challenging claim 4 Inspired by God 3 Self-consistent Word of God
  29. Deity manifested in Messiah
  30. Germanic mythological influences up to today’s Christmas celebrations
  31. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine

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Further reading

  1. Is God comprised of three persons, or is He just one person?
  2. Questions for those who believe in the Trinity
  3. Trinity And Pagan Influence
  4. The Trinity: paganism or Christianity?
  5. Trinity in the Bible
  6. Shiva, the destroyer yet the preserver
  7. Universe according to Pythagoras – pt. 1 – Tetractys
  8. A Note on ‘Biblical’ Simplicity
  9. 1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
  10. What is God’s Glory and Why does it Matter?
  11. Ethno-nationalism and the Christian Trinity
  12. In the Newness of Prepositions
  13. Labyrinth of the Week #2: Trinity Lutheran Church
  14. Oneness Pentecostalism and Their False Doctrine of Modalism
  15. ALiF Quotes: “Plurality of One is Duality and Plurality of Two is Trinity; everything else is their derivatives.”
  16. Embrace the Mystery: Does all of theology “make sense”
  17. The Trinity Dogma and the Worship of Angels
  18. The Lord Jesus Christ and The Divine Trinity
  19. A Glimpse of the Trinity
  20. What is the Trinity?
  21. The Trinity: It’s Not That Hard to Believe.
  22. Easy Way To Know God’s Will
  23. Trinity, logically described
  24. Trinity, Part II
  25. ​Unity of the Blessed Trinity
  26. (Study) Jesus Is God
  27. A Quick Stop at The Shack
  28. Random Submission
  29. Testament 26: His word is our bond
  30. Islam and the Doctrine of the Trinity
  31. Robert Wells Needs Help Responding to Muslims on Blogging Theology
  32. The Hospitality of Abraham: The Liturgical Witness
  33. Hays on Mark’s Jesus: The God Who “Walks By” On the Water
  34. A Dove, 3, 7, and Creation
  35. Irenaeus: Salvation is the work of the Trinity
  36. Do Not Be Anxious to Be Modern In Theology
  37.  Testament 24: how to receive grace and mercy 
  38. Virgin Birth (Symbolism, Mythology, and Mystery)
  39. Is Jesus a lesser God?
  40. No One Knows the Father Except the Son: H.R. Mackintosh on the Radical Exclusivity of Revelation in Christ
  41. Delighting in the Trinity
  42. The Good God
  43. The Curious Christian
  44. Misquoted Verses #1: Judge Not
  45. Let’s Get Lost: Mapping Religion in the 21st Century
  46. The Most Shocking Thing Ever Uttered

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