Seven Scriptural reasons the Holy Spirit cannot be a person

  1. First, because many things in the Scriptures are attributed to the Holy Spirit that cannot apply to a divine person. And many of them cannot apply to any person at all. Some examples are that the Holy Spirit is given by God (Acts 5:32; 1 Jn 4:13) either according to measure or without measure (Eph 4:7) that God pours it out and it is sent forth from Him (Acts 2:17, 33) that believers drink into it and are baptized with or into it (1 Cor 12:13; Mk 1:8; Acts 1:5) that it is given in double portions and distributed in parts (Heb 2:4; 2 Kng 2:9) that there are first-fruits of it (Rom 8:23) that it may all be taken away or that a portion may be taken away (Ps 51:12; Num 11:17, 25) that it can be quenched (1 Thes 5:19) and many similar things that can be found in the Scriptures.

    HOLY SPIRIT - FOIX

    Holy Spirit – Foix (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

  2. Second, because it is clearly stated that the Holy Spirit is given by God, and this is even claimed in places where it’s commonly believed to mean a divine person. But a divine person cannot be given or bestowed by anyone since one who is given or bestowed must be under the authority of another. In no way can this be said of a divine person that is the supreme God Himself.
  3. Third, because Christ said that “no one knows the Son but the Father, and no one knows the Father but the Son and those to whom the Son reveals Him.” (Mt 11:27) But if the Holy Spirit was a divine person, the Father wouldn’t be the only one to know the Son. And the Son wouldn’t be the only one to know the Father – if the Holy Spirit was God it wouldn’t need a revelation from anyone to know both.
  4. Fourth, because in several places such as John 5:17; 8:16; 14:21; 17:3 ; 1 John 1:3, 2:23; 2 John 3 and 9; Luke 9:26; Mark 12:32; 1 Timothy.5:21; and Revelation 3:5 where the Father and Son, occasionally angels, and even humans are mentioned, no notice is taken of the Holy Spirit. If it was a divine person “he” should be named equally with God and Christ, and even more so than angels or humans.
  5. Fifth, because in many places the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of God, but that which is “of” God cannot be God. Thus, the Holy Spirit cannot be a divine person, for to be “of” God and to “be” God are two different things. In addition, the Holy Spirit is called the power or finger of God, which cannot be said of an equal person of the Deity – that is, of the supreme God Himself (Compare Luke 1:35; 24:49; and Matthew 12:28 with Luke 11:20)
  6. Sixth, because the Holy Spirit is said to be “of” God (1 Cor 2:12) and proceed “from” God (Jn 15:26) and unless it was of God, Paul couldn’t compare the Spirit of God with the spirit of man that is in man as he does when he says “for what man knows the things of a man but the spirit of man that is in him? Even so, no man knows the things of God but the Spirit of God.” Since the Holv Spirit is “of” (or from) God – and it has never been said the Father is “of” the Holy Spirit – it’s apparent the Holy Spirit is not a person of the Godhead. Also, it’s been clearly stated there’s only one person in the Godhead. (Deut 6:4; Mk 12:28-34; Is 43:10-11; 45:5; 1 Chr 17:20; Eph 4:6). Since this is none other than the Father, it should be evident that the Spirit, which certainly isn’t the Father, cannot be a divine person.
  7. Seventh, if the Holy Spirit was a person it would be God Himself, for the things attributed to it only apply to the divine essence. But since it’s already been shown that God is numerically one, He cannot be a plurality of persons, nor can the one numerical essence of God apply to many persons. Therefore, it’s clear the Holv Spirit cannot be a person of the Godhead.


It can also be said that if the Holy Spirit is a person, and that Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, it necessarily follows that Christ was the son of the Spirit, not the Father.

 Robert Scott Thomson

++

Additional reading

  1. Only one God
  2. God is one
  3. God of gods
Advertisements

God isn’t dead though for many He is not relevant

In the 1960ies we often heard it said that God was dead.

Friedrich Nietzsche and his mother.

Friedrich Nietzsche and his mother. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Carl Ludwig Nietzsche, was appointed pastor at Röcken by order of King Friedrich Wilhelm IV of Prussia, after whom Friedrich Nietzsche was named. Before Friedrich Nietzsche’s fifth birthday his father died in 1849. He was left to live in a household consisting of five women: his mother, Franziska, his younger sister, Elisabeth, his maternal grandmother, and two aunts.

Friedrich Wilhelm Ritschl (1806–1876)

Friedrich Wilhelm Ritschl (1806–1876) (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

After attending a private preparatory school, the Domgymnasium, he was admitted to Schulpforta, Germany’s leading Protestant boarding school. Having graduated in 1864, he went to the University of Bonn to study theology and classical philology.  Influenced by the textual criticism of the English and German classicists Richard Bentley and Gottfried Hermann, F.W. Ritschl, in full Friedrich Wilhelm Ritschl became a classical scholar remembered for his work on Plautus and as the founder of the Bonn school of classical scholarship. It was under the tutelage of Ritschl in Leipzig that he further developed and became the only student ever to publish in Ritschl’s journal, Rheinisches Museum (“Rhenish Museum”). Ritschl assured the University of Basel that he had never seen anyone like Nietzsche in 40 years of teaching and that his talents were limitless and as such would be the best candidate to receive a professorship in classical philology that fell vacant in 1869 in Basel, Switzerland.

English: Portrait of Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882...

English: Portrait of Friedrich Nietzsche, 1882; One of five photographies by photographer Gustav Schultze, Naumburg, taken early September 1882. Public domain due to age of photography. Scan processed by Anton (2005)  (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In his mature writings Nietzsche was preoccupied by the origin and function of values in human life.With his protestant background one can wonder if his expression “God is dead” was not misinterpreted.

Many people seem to assume that this implies God was once a living creature, and he has since passed away. But this is a misconception. Nietzsche was an atheist, and thus never believed that a God existed in any form except as a figment of the human imagination. {Nietzsche: God is Dead (Part 1)}

Though we do find this man writing a lot about God and looking at the Judeo-Christian tradition, which according to him made suffering tolerable by interpreting it as God’s intention and as an occasion for atonement. For him this clinging to a flattering doctrine of personal immortality, could also seen as man having created its god to feel safe and sure, but those who did not believe in a god or God also tried to cling to an other “true” world, also offering symptoms of a declining life, or life in distress.

But for Nietzsche when there  is no god man also has not need of a god and man did not have to create a “slave” and “master” world, but should be himself the master. Facing the gut (“good”), schlecht (“bad”), and böse (“evil”) was something we made up ourselves as a nonmoral reference to those who were privileged, the masters, as opposed to those who were base, the slaves. For him his generation had come in a timespan where religious and philosophical absolutes had dissolved in the emergence of 19th-century positivism.

With the collapse of metaphysical and theological foundations and sanctions for traditional morality only a pervasive sense of purposelessness and meaninglessness would remain. And the triumph of meaninglessness is the triumph of nihilism: “God is dead.” Nietzsche thought, however, that most people could not accept the eclipse of the ascetic ideal and the intrinsic meaninglessness of existence but would seek supplanting absolutes to invest life with meaning.{ on Friedrich Nietzsche in the Encyclopaedia Britannica}

Many do forget that as a thinker it might well be that Nietzsche also had come into conflict with the trinitarian thought and the sayings in the Scripture that there is only One true God Who is One and an eternal Spirit, not having bones, flesh or blood, whilst so many people around him worshipped a god with flesh, bones and blood who was born and who died. All such contradictions with what is written in the Old and the New Testament could have muddled his mind.

Eventually the faithful get so worried about the well-being of God, that they build an armour to protect him. {What did Nietzsche mean by God is dead?}

When Nietzsche like others would have thought of that in such saying, he also could see the first sign that people were losing faith in God, also noticing around him how many people had lost faith in Him and did not trust God to take care of himself and able to endanger their safety.

The wannabe-philosopher of Finnish origin continues

Still at first, God is safe inside the armour and people continue to worship him. Over time though, God gets pissed off at the whole situation and leaves, or simply suffocates, leaving the armour for people to worship. People keep worshipping the hollow armour, and religion becomes a meaningless ritual with no substance to it. This is what “God is dead, and we have killed him” means. {What did Nietzsche mean by God is dead?}

An “Autobiographical” philosopher also looks at the German philosopher, extremely critical of Christianity, but sees, like us, that we may not just take it as a sort of atheist statement which would be the “ultimate truth”. For Gabriel J. Mitchell

“God is Dead” simply means “The Christian god is becoming increasingly irrelevant to philosophy and culture”.  {What Nietzsche Meant by “God is Dead”}

Mitchell writes:

In popular culture the phrase is often mistaken as an anti-Christian statement. Some sort of declaration of Atheism. This is most obviously manifested in Christian content like the film God’s Not Dead. In the movie, a disgruntled atheist professor demands his students declare the death of God and embrace atheism. {What Nietzsche Meant by “God is Dead”}

With his background and his protestant family it would be strange that with his pretty bold statement that would be going against his own family’s belief and bring a serious anti-Christian message.
The saying „Gott ist tot“ or “God is dead” also known as “the death of God” first appeared in Nietzsche’s 1882 collection “Die fröhliche Wissenschaft” or “The Joyful Wisdom” also known as The Gay Science,  also translated as “The Joyful Pursuit of Knowledge and Understanding”. The German Wissenschaft never indicates “Weisheit” or “wisdom”, but concerns any rigorous practice of a poised, controlled, and disciplined quest for knowledge, typically translated as “science”. Nietzsche speaks about “what if” which does not mean “it is”.

As such Nietzsche writes

What if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: ‘This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more’ […] Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: ‘You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.’ — [The Joyful Wisdom §341]

Buddha in Sarnath Museum (Dhammajak Mutra).jpg

A statue of the Buddha from Sarnath, 4th century CE

A demon or sick person often is seen as a mad person or some one not by his senses. That mad man also can look at different deities and ascetics and sages like Gautama Buddha, probably a very attractive figure for Nietzsche because of all the philosophic thoughts of that teacher who lived in northern India sometime between the 6th and 4th centuries before the Common Era.

We find the first occurrence of the famous formulation “God is dead,” first in section 108.

After Buddha was dead, people
showed his shadow for centuries afterwards in a
cave,—an immense frightful shadow. God is dead:
but as the human race is constituted, there will
perhaps be caves for millenniums yet, in which
people will show his shadow.—And we—we have
still to overcome his shadow! {— §108}

FW82.jpg

The Joyful Wisdom or The Gay Science, first published in 1882 and followed by a second edition, which was published after the completion of Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Beyond Good and Evil, in 1887.

Section 125 depicts the parable of the madman who is searching for God. He accuses us all of being the murderers of God.

“‘Where is God?’ he cried; ‘I will tell you. We have killed him—you and I. All of us are his murderers…”

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? {Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann}

Mitchell explains

The line is part of The Parable of the Madman a section from Nietzsche’s The Gay Science. It depicts a maddened individual running around a village asking where he can find God only to declare that God must be dead. In his ever creative style Nietzsche is using this madman as an outlet to explore an idea. Particularly he’s interested in the shifting values of European culture during his lifetime. {What Nietzsche Meant by “God is Dead”}

More and more people took distance from religion, most people confusing God with Church. Having found so many lies in church they considered “God” also being a “fat lie”. Though many wondered what their life was to be and if there was nothing behind it or something hidden for them.

Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel also had pondered the death of God, first in his Phenomenology of Spirit where he considers the death of God to

‘not [be] seen as anything but an easily recognized part of the usual Christian cycle of redemption’

But there some thought Jesus Christ to be the God, and when Jesus is God and Jesus died than really God would have died. Naturally Jesus is not God, because God is a Spirit Who has no beginning and not end and to Whom man can do nothing. In case Jesus is God and has died God would be dead and this did hurt Hegel, who writes about the great pain of knowing that God is dead

‘The pure concept, however, or infinity, as the abyss of nothingness in which all being sinks, must characterize the infinite pain, which previously was only in culture historically and as the feeling on which rests modern religion, the feeling that God Himself is dead, (the feeling which was uttered by Pascal, though only empirically, in his saying: Nature is such that it marks everywhere, both in and outside of man, a lost God), purely as a phase, but also as no more than just a phase, of the highest idea.’.

Nietzsche recognizes the crisis that the death of God represents for existing moral assumptions:

“When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one’s feet. This morality is by no means self-evident… By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one’s hands.”

Nietzsche saw how man went away from the faith in God and by doing so was looking for new answers or better answers than the churches could give. When not any more believing in the beautiful masterly concept of creation by the Divine Maker belief of cosmic or physical order also fell to the ground.

Nietzsche saw Europe was slowly transitioning into a sort of cultural Nihilism. As advancements in science and technology lead to more and more questioning of the status quo, Philosophical values were beginning to shift. What Nietzsche is getting at here isn’t a declaration of the truth value of Christianity. In fact truth is a topic Nietzsche is extremely critical of. Instead he’s pointing out the weakening of Christian influences on society. {What Nietzsche Meant by “God is Dead”}

Clearly the church was loosing its grip on the citizens. The ability to have the Bible in print and available to lots of people, made them also aware that for years those churches had lied about many things. Those who really went to study the Scriptures where confronted with many things the church said which were not written at all in the Bible.
An other problem arose by the growing knowledge and advancement in the sciences. Several people wanted to play for god themselves.

Later on people can take a look inside the armour and see there is no God there, and say God never existed in the first place. Whether or not God actually exists or existed at any point as an entity in the universe is not as relevant as the fact that there is an inherent need in most people to have faith in God. That in itself does change how people behave, hopefully for the better.

To put this hollow armour analogy in a more abstract way, is that at first people had a genuine faith in God whether or not this faith was reciprocated by an actual God. Over the course of time this genuine God was replaced by a man-made image of God. Man got rid of the real thing in favour of a man-made facsimile. I suppose the underlying motivation is that if man made God, man can also control him. {What did Nietzsche mean by God is dead?}

Seeing how man went away from God Nietzsche probably was very well aware that this could bring man in trouble.

Given Nietzsche’s strong animosity towards religion, you would think people realizing that ‘God is Dead’ would make him happy. After all, Nietzsche was dedicated in his quest to try and rid the individual of dogmatic and supernatural beliefs. Surely, people disregarding religion would be a comforting sight to Nietzsche. But this was not the case. Nietzsche was deeply troubled by the lack of a God, he feared that this may lead to the destruction of our society. {Nietzsche: God is Dead (Part 1)}

The end of Christianity for Europe might bring desolation and chaos. Churches had fostered on human dogma‘s and now people had come to see how different they are to Biblical dogma’s. But when one finds that a church has lied so much would one go for an other church and not face the same problem? Mankind always have nuzzled dogmatic beliefs that are widely held and accepted by society and do not want to do away with so many traditions.

Many of these beliefs go unquestioned, and thus we live in a sort of ‘herd’ similar to sheep (the term sheeple is probably the best representation of this). By overcoming the herd perspective, a man can free himself and achieve new heights. {Nietzsche: The Ubermensch (Part 2)}

When there is no God or when man himself is god, then man may be the master of everything (does he think). When there is no God,like so many think, then man loves to be as a god being the super being or Ubermensch, to which nothing is to small or to big and everything can be made possible. When it is not possible to do something today than it will be possible tomorrow or in the future, so why worry?

The Ubermensch is supposed to act as the answer to the problem of nihilism. Since God is dead, that means there is no objective truth or morality. Thus, an Ubermensch acts as his own ‘God’, abandoning the herd instinct and determining his own morality. He is neither slave nor master, as he does not impose his will on others. He is a master of self-discipline. He must be willing to embrace suffering and learn from it. In a way, the Ubermensch is the next step in human evolution. It’s a new intuition, perspective, and greatness for mankind. {Nietzsche: The Ubermensch (Part 2)}

For sure, man has to take a long way before he shall reach such a state. He also seems to forget that is what the Word of God demands from man, that man work at themselves transforming their character to an ideal being without faults. Only problem that than poses, is to know what would be faults, and what would be the right things to strive for. For a Bible Student no such problems arise because he can find all answers in the Bible. But those who do not want to take a serious look at that Library of ancient works, still many questions shall stay unanswered.

++

Additional reading

  1. Today’s thought “Ability to see that God is not dead” (May 12)
  2. Inner feeling, morality and Inter-connection with creation
  3. Christian values and voting not just a game
  4. 3rd question: Does there exist a Divine Creator
  5. Is there no ‘proof’ for God? (And why that statement is not as smart as you might think.)

+++

Further reading

  1. Moral Collapse Didn’t Begin Yesterday. Occult Paris
  2. Everything and Nothing
  3. No Lives Matter
  4. The Nil God
  5. Wake up; There is no God
  6. The death of God (and politics?)
  7. Because God is not efficient in revealing himself to us, He must not exist.
  8. With God vs Without
  9. God
  10. O God…
  11. Lunch n’ Bats
  12. Collecting our thoughts: opening prayer
  13. A walk on the sea
  14. The End of the World
  15. A Defense of Religion (From an Atheist)
  16. Seraphim Rose: “large numbers of Catholics and Protestants are hardly to be distinguished from unbelievers “
  17. On Nihilism
  18. Dostoyevsky’s Übermensch in Crime & Punishment
  19. God’s Heartbreak
  20. Can You Be A Happy Nihilist?
  21. Ep. 48 – Calvin Warren and Frank Wilderson III on Antiblackness, Nihilism, and Politics
  22. The New Nihilism
  23. A Journey Toward A Theory Of Stupidity 3 | The Grandfather Of Stupidology Part 1
  24. The Weaponisation Of Popular Culture
  25. Chapter 6
  26. What We Can Gain From Detachment
  27. Nietzsche and Buddhism
  28. Buddhism, Nietzsche, Jung, Christianity, and Plato: Religious and Philosophical Themes in Westworld
  29. Identification
  30. Who I am and why I’m here
  31. Übermensch
  32. Nietzsche #7 – Der Übermensch
  33. Nietzsche: Eternal Recurrence (Part 3)
  34. Nietzsche, a philosophical biography (Rüdiger Safranski, 2000)
  35. Übermensch by Mathew Babaoye
  36. Editorial 23: Frank Castle, Ubermensch
  37. How to become Superman: Nietzsche’s overwhelming concept and questions to ask yourself
  38. The Ubermensch as an Archetype

+++

Dying for or instead

Tragically, the simple words “Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8) have been grossly misunderstood as meaning that Christ died instead of us.

There are a number of connections between Romans 5 and 1 Cor. 15 (e.g. v. 12 = 1 Cor. 15:21; v. 17 = 1 Cor. 15:22). “Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8) is matched by “Christ died for our sins” (1 Cor. 15:3). His death was in order to make a way whereby we can gain forgiveness of our sins; it was in this sense that “Christ died for us”. The word “for” does not necessarily mean ‘instead of’; Christ died “for our sins”, not ‘instead of’ them. Because of this, Christ can “make intercession” for us (Heb. 7:25) – not ‘instead of’ us. Neither does “for” mean ‘instead of’ in Heb. 10:12 and Gal. 1:4.

Jesus is Our Representative Not Our Substitute

– Peter Foster

+++

Faith coming by hearing and sent preacher gift from God

“Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Rom. 10:17)

The Apostle Paul in this verse tells us that no one can believe unless they hear. In the same context, he also says that no one can hear unless “a preacher” is “sent.” (vss. 14,15) Thus, without question the “sent preacher” is a gift from Yahweh, the Author of Salvation.

Faith can be considered a gift from Yahweh.

“We have knowledge of Yahweh, and this knowledge, which is granted us as a grace or favor, brings us to the place where we are enabled to exercise faith.”

Faith in a great measure rests upon knowledge. Knowledge reveals Yahweh’s character as our Great Savior, the Divine Revelation makes known to us certain facts respecting Yahweh’s purposes, and we see the purposes thus outlined to be in harmony with the character of Yahweh.

This enables one to believe the promises; and believing them, we are enabled to act upon them.

“This is faith. Our faith, while it is of ourselves in the sense that we must exercise it, is of Yahweh in the sense that He supplies the necessary elements from which that faith is to be compounded.”— What Pastor Russell Said, pp. 266,267

Everything received now, and which the world of humanity will receive in the next age, soon to come, is because of Yahweh’s Grace. Yahweh has given us opportunities to hear about Him through His Word and through those who have explained that Word to us.

And without our Redeemer Jesus, who is Yahweh’s appointed Representative, who Yahweh sent to us to show us the way to Him.

Thus, through Jesus Christ our Head we learn the Almighty Heavenly Father’s Character and come to know the true Savior.

Jesus always pointed us to his God and our God, his Father and our Father. Jesus did the will of Yahweh and willing because he loved his Almighty Creator and died to pay the price required as his part of salvation and we love him for his great sacrifice for our behalf, and not only ours, but the whole world of humanity.

Jesus covers us with his Sin Offering merit and without it, we would never be able to grow in the Grace our Heavenly Father so much wants us to have.

May we never lose our faith. It is faith that made us acceptable to Yahweh, and it is faith that insures our ultimate salvation.

“The just shall live by faith: but if any draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

“This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith!”
(Heb. 10:38,39; 1 Tim. 6:12;
1 John 5:4)

John Harris (the Word of God is more precious than gold) HeChar

++

Additional reading

  1. Faith
  2. Faith and works
  3. Faith moving mountains

+++

Further reading

  1. The Sin Offering
  2. All That Jesus Is Before God, You Are
  3. Numbers 7
  4. Leviticus 9
  5. SOAP Journal – 02 February 2017 (Leviticus 4:16-18)
  6. 20 February 2017 Bible Reading
  7. Atonement as Liturgy: The Cross Re-examined
  8. Catrina’s Understanding of Leviticus 1-13

+++

A Father Who begat a son

Documents of the Christian Church 2nd Ed 1963 Henery Bettenson
(quotes from Arius and his followers)

“If, said he, the Father begat the Son, he that was begotten had a beginning of existence; hence it is clear that there was a [a time] when the son was not.”
“The Son of God is from what is not and there was [a time] when he was not; saying also that the Son of God, in virtue of his free will, is capable of evil and good, and calling him a creature and a work.”

The Rise of Christianity 1985 W.H.C. Frend

“If the Father begat the son, there must be when he was not. He could not therefore be coeternal with the Father.”[said by Arius]

Man’s Religions 1968 John B. Noss

Arius held that Christ, . . . was a created being; he was made like other creatures out of nothing, . . . The Son, he argued, had a beginning, while God was without beginning.”

The Church in History 1964 B. K. Kuiper

Arius püspök.jpg

The Christian priest of Alexandria, Egypt, Arius arguing for the supremacy of God the Father, and that the Son had a beginning as a true Firstborn

“The heathen believe in many gods. Arius thought that to believe that the Son is God as well as that the Father is God would mean that there are two Gods, and that therefore the Christians would be falling back into heathenism.”
Arius believed that Jesus Christ was born, that he had a beginning, he believed that Jesus Christ was the created Son, not the Creator, and for taking the Word of God literally he was excommunicated and anathematised. Starting with Nimrod in ancient Babylon until today man has stubbornly rebelled against the doctrine of one God.

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14a For thou shalt worship no other god:

The trinity is idolatry, it puts Jesus Christ as a god before God.

Forgers of the Word 1983 Victor Paul Wierwille

“To say Jesus Christ is God the Son is idolatry. To say Jesus is the Son of God is truth.”

Forgers of the Word 1983 Victor Paul Wierwille

“To say Jesus Christ is God the Son is idolatry. To say Jesus is the Son of God is truth.”

Man’s Religions John B. Noss 1968

“The doctrine of the trinity he [Michael Servetus] felt to be a Catholic perversion and himself to be a good New Testament Christian in combating it. . . According to his conception, a trinity composed of three distinct persons in one God is a rational impossibility;”

Saying that Jesus Christ is not God does not degrade Jesus Christ it merely sets things in their proper order so we can know God and worship Him in spirit and truth.

We can no longer be lulled to sleep by the bizarre, complex, confusing, ritualistic, mysterious Babylonian traditions of trinitarian doctrines. We must come back to God’s Word and worship the one true God- the Holy Father of Jesus Christ.

Andrey Davidson

+

Preceding articles

People Seeking for God 2 Human interpretations

People Seeking for God 3 Laws and directions

People Seeking for God 4 Biblical terms

Christianity without the Trinity

Being Religious and Spiritual 5 Gnostic influences

Roman, Aztec and other rites still influencing us today

Application of old pagan concept of trinity

The imaginational war against Christmas

Entrance of a king to question our position #1 Coming in the Name of the Lord

Entrance of a king to question our position #2 Who do we want to see and to be

Joseph Priestley To the Point

++

Additional articles

  1. Blindness in the Christian world
  2. Vision blurred by cumulative burden of divisions
  3. Does there have to be a Holy Trinity Mystery
  4. Finding and Understanding Words and Meanings
  5. Creator and Blogger God 7 A Blog of a Book 1 Believing the Blogger
  6. Genesis 1:26 God said “Let us make”
  7. Have no other gods besides Me
  8. Written and translated by different men over thousands of years
  9. A god who gave his people commandments and laws he knew they never could keep to it
  10. For those who believe Jesus is God
  11. For Getting to know Jesus
  12. Objects around the birth and death of Jesus
  13. The Son can do nothing of his own accord
  14. Nazarene Commentary Matthew 3:13-17 – Jesus Declared God’s Son at His Baptism
  15. Nazarene Commentary Matthew 4:5-7 – A Temptation to Test God
  16. God son king and his subjects
  17. Authority given to him To give eternal life
  18. Americans really thinking the Messiah Christ had an English name
  19. Focussing on the man Jesus and the relationship with God
  20. It happened on May 2 295
  21. 1691 years ago on June the 20th in 325
  22. A Triple God or simply a rather simple One God
  23. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine
  24. 19° century London and Unitarians
  25. Afraid to see the man of the heavens opened
  26. Minimizing the power of God’s Force the Holy Spirit
  27. Jewish and Christian traditions of elders
  28. Renewed Catholic-Jewish relations still with a blemish
  29. Immanuel looking at Jewish and Christian visions
  30. Do you purpose that your mouth will not transgress
  31. Solstice, Saturnalia and Christmas-stress
  32. Responses to Radical Muslims and Radical Christians
  33. What is the truth asked also Pontius Pilate
  34. In Defense of the truth
  35. Forbidden Fruit in the Midst of the Garden 4
  36. More Mexicans start questioning Catholic doctrine and the concept of the Trinity
  37. President of the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations considers of undoing the Unitarian idea

+++

Related articles

  1. Jesus’ Incarnation: Created or Divine?
  2. Phil Pringle peddles Word of Faith & Arian heresy: “God spoke Christ into creation before anything else”
  3. Ignatius and Submission According to the Flesh
  4. Mini Episode 3: The Nicene Creed
  5. #341 – A History of the Catholic Church – The Presbyter Of Alexandria
  6. #342 – A History Catholic of the Catholic Church – The First Ecumenical Council
  7. #343 – A History of the Catholic Church – The Nicene Creed
  8. #351 – A History of the Catholic Church – Nicenes and Eusebians
  9. #352 – A History of the Catholic Church – Anathematizations and Glorifications
  10. Today in Church History: May 20
  11. Konsili Nicea: Yesus Diangkat Menjadi Tuhan
  12. Athanasius and the dodgy worship leader
  13. Celebrate Christmas If You A Real G
  14. Episode 5: Arius
  15. Ep10: Is Jesus Fully Man?
  16. Vision of Peter of Alexandria
  17. Patriarchy Preachers Teach that Jesus Is a Lesser God
  18. Embrace the Mystery: Does all of theology “make sense”
  19. Heresies – Arianism
  20. Does It Really Matter What We Believe?
  21. The Fullness of Time
  22. Sectarianism in the church
  23. TDISH: Scientist and Heretic
  24. Servetus, Socinus and Sola Scriptura
  25. Punching Above His Weight
  26. Feast of Sebastian Castellio (March 20)

+++

Application of old pagan concept of trinity

Many who believe in the trinity are surprised to learn that the idea of divine beings existing as trinities or triads long predated Christianity. Yet the evidence is abundantly documented. So let us have a look at some of the evidence.

Marie Sinclair, Countess of Caithness, in her 1876 book Old Truths in a New Light, states,

“It is generally, although erroneously, supposed that the doctrine of the Trinity is of Christian origin. Nearly every nation of antiquity possessed a similar doctrine. [The early Catholic theologian] St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, ‘All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity’.” — (p. 382)

Notice how the following quotes document belief in a divine trinity in many regions and religions of the ancient world.

Sumeria

Ur III Sumerian cuneiform for An or Anu, the earliest attested Sky Father deity. In Sumerian religion, he was also “King of the Gods“, “Lord of the Constellations, Spirits and Demons”, and “Supreme Ruler of the Kingdom of Heaven”, where Anu himself wandered the highest Heavenly Regions.

“The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu‘s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods.” — (The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54, 55)

Babylonia

“The ancient Babylonians recognised the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity.” — (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22, 23)

India

Purana or “ancient, old” Manuscript

“The Puranas, one of the Hindoo Bibles of more than 3,000 years ago, contain the following passage:

‘O ye three Lords! know that I recognise only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.’

The three gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva], becoming manifest to him, replied,

‘Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.’

Hence the triangle was adopted by all the ancient nations as a symbol of the Deity … Three was considered among all the pagan nations as the chief of the mystical numbers, because, as Aristotle remarks, it contains within itself a beginning, a middle, and an end. Hence we find it designating some of the attributes of almost all the pagan gods.” (Sinclair, pp. 382, 383)

Greece

“In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote:

‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’.” — (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197, 198)

Egypt

“The Hymn to Amun decreed that

Re-Horakhty.svg

Re, also spelled Ra or Pra, in ancient Egyptian religion, god of the sun and one of the creator gods, who rose from the ocean of chaos on the primeval hill, creating himself and then in turn engendering eight other gods.

‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’

and that

‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.’

… This is a statement of trinity, the three chief gods of Egypt subsumed into one of them, Amon. Clearly, the concept of organic unity within plurality got an extraordinary boost with this formulation. Theologically, in a crude form it came strikingly close to the later Christian form of plural Trinitarian monotheism.” — (Simson Najovits, Egypt, Trunk of the Tree, Vol. 2, 2004, pp. 83, 84)

Other areas

Many other areas had their own divine trinities.

In Greece they were Zeus, Poseidon and Adonis. The Phoenicians worshipped Ulomus, Ulosuros and Eliun. Rome worshipped Jupiter, Mars and Venus. In Germanic nations they were called Wodan, Thor and Fricco. Regarding the Celts, one source states,

“The ancient heathen deities of the pagan Irish, Criosan, Biosena, and Seeva, or Sheeva, are doubtless the Creeshna [Krishna], Veeshnu [Vishnu], [or the all-inclusive] Brahma, and Seeva [Shiva], of the Hindoos.” — (Thomas Maurice, The History of Hindostan, Vol. 2, 1798, p. 171)

Arthur Edward Pearse Brome Weigall, English Egyptologist, stage designer, journalist and author, at the Temple of Edfu, before 1913

The deception is beautifully seen by the astonishing admission of Arthur Weigall who himself is a Trinitarian. Egyptologist Arthur Weigall summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his book:

“It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan …
The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth …
The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One …The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third ‘Person,’ co-equal with the other ‘Persons’…The idea of the Spirit being co-equal with God was not generally recognised until the second half of the Fourth Century A.D… . In the year 381 the Council of Constantinople added to the earlier Nicene Creed a description of the Holy Spirit as

‘the Lord, and giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified.’

Andrey Davidson, Kingdom of God – Arius’ non-trinitarian Christian  theology

(Arian Church Facebook Group)

Christian Doctrine of the Trinity

+

Preceding

Roman, Aztec and other rites still influencing us today

Christianity without the Trinity

Next: A Father Who begat a son

++

Additional reading

  1. Tri-union gods and Pagan, Christian, Muslim and Jewish views on the Creator God
  2. Looking for answers on the question Is there a God #1 Many gods
  3. A Triple God or simply a rather simple One God
  4. Trinity matter
  5. Trinity – History
  6. How did the Trinity Doctrine Develop
  7. History of the acceptance of a three-in-one God
  8. Altered to fit a Trinity
  9. The Trinity – the truth
  10. Trinitarian philosophy
  11. Does there have to be a Holy Trinity?
  12. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine
  13. How do trinitarians equate divine nature
  14. The Great Trinity debate
  15. Newton not believing in the Holy Trinity
  16. Inspired Word
  17. The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #1
  18. The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #2
  19. Who Is Jesus? God, or unique Man?
  20. Jesus the “God-Man”: Really?
  21. The saviour Jesus his godly side
  22. The saviour Jesus his human side
  23. Omniscient God opposite a not knowing Jesus
  24. Jesus Christ being dispatched as the Figurehead of a Religion
  25. The Christ, the anointed of God
  26. Challenging claim
  27. Challenging claim 1 Whose word
  28. Challenging claim 4 Inspired by God 3 Self-consistent Word of God
  29. Deity manifested in Messiah
  30. Germanic mythological influences up to today’s Christmas celebrations
  31. Problems correspondents have with the Trinity Doctrine

+++

Further reading

  1. Is God comprised of three persons, or is He just one person?
  2. Questions for those who believe in the Trinity
  3. Trinity And Pagan Influence
  4. The Trinity: paganism or Christianity?
  5. Trinity in the Bible
  6. Shiva, the destroyer yet the preserver
  7. Universe according to Pythagoras – pt. 1 – Tetractys
  8. A Note on ‘Biblical’ Simplicity
  9. 1 John 5:7 And Matthew 28:19 – Fabricated Trinity Verses
  10. What is God’s Glory and Why does it Matter?
  11. Ethno-nationalism and the Christian Trinity
  12. In the Newness of Prepositions
  13. Labyrinth of the Week #2: Trinity Lutheran Church
  14. Oneness Pentecostalism and Their False Doctrine of Modalism
  15. ALiF Quotes: “Plurality of One is Duality and Plurality of Two is Trinity; everything else is their derivatives.”
  16. Embrace the Mystery: Does all of theology “make sense”
  17. The Trinity Dogma and the Worship of Angels
  18. The Lord Jesus Christ and The Divine Trinity
  19. A Glimpse of the Trinity
  20. What is the Trinity?
  21. The Trinity: It’s Not That Hard to Believe.
  22. Easy Way To Know God’s Will
  23. Trinity, logically described
  24. Trinity, Part II
  25. ​Unity of the Blessed Trinity
  26. (Study) Jesus Is God
  27. A Quick Stop at The Shack
  28. Random Submission
  29. Testament 26: His word is our bond
  30. Islam and the Doctrine of the Trinity
  31. Robert Wells Needs Help Responding to Muslims on Blogging Theology
  32. The Hospitality of Abraham: The Liturgical Witness
  33. Hays on Mark’s Jesus: The God Who “Walks By” On the Water
  34. A Dove, 3, 7, and Creation
  35. Irenaeus: Salvation is the work of the Trinity
  36. Do Not Be Anxious to Be Modern In Theology
  37.  Testament 24: how to receive grace and mercy 
  38. Virgin Birth (Symbolism, Mythology, and Mystery)
  39. Is Jesus a lesser God?
  40. No One Knows the Father Except the Son: H.R. Mackintosh on the Radical Exclusivity of Revelation in Christ
  41. Delighting in the Trinity
  42. The Good God
  43. The Curious Christian
  44. Misquoted Verses #1: Judge Not
  45. Let’s Get Lost: Mapping Religion in the 21st Century
  46. The Most Shocking Thing Ever Uttered

+++

Save

Save

Over de overbodigheid van een faculteit theologie

Betreft al de theologische scholen valt het telkens op dat bij die instellingen wel wordt verwacht dat men geloof stelt in hun god en meestal ook wel behoord tot hun geaffilieerde kerkgenootschap.

Anders en niet gelovigen hebben het in zulke instellingen zeer moeilijk om voor de examens te slagen en daar een graad te behalen.

Natuurlijk hebben zulke hogescholen een betekenis van bestaan voor het leren van geschiedkundige achtergronden van religies, filosofische en religieuze denkwijzen, maar om er te leren wie de Ware God is en hoe Hem te dienen zijn het niet de ideale instellingen.

Voor de Ware Enige God te leren gaat men best te rade bij de Grootste Gever van Het meest juiste antwoord biedende Woord, de Bijbel. Daarin kan men de beste opleiding verkrijgen om de enige Ware God te leren kennen om Hem op de juiste wijze te leren dienen.

Men heeft geen theologie opleiding nodig om de bijbel te kunnen verstaan of begrijpen en/of om een goed Christen te worden.

*

Ter herinnering

Dawkins at the University of Texas at Austin.

Dawkins at the University of Texas at Austin. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

266px-maarten_boudry

Maarten Boudry profileert  zich als de Richard Dawkins van de lage landen => waarmee de autistische informaticus Malakh Ahavah hem bekritiseerd op zijn dogmatische houding als atheïstische evangelist tegenover religie.

Maarten Boudry = neptheoloog

zond tweet de wereld in, (in de Wetenschappelijke taal Engels):

 

“No self-respecting university should have a Faculty of Theology. Even a Faculty of Astrology would make more sense. At least stars exist.”

.

verschillende opvattingen, > Descartes twee bewijzen voor het bestaan van God, + Lacant onderbewuste structureren als een taal

.

Universiteit Leuven > geloof van student niet geëxamineerd

theologie-studenten niet met geloof bezig houden <= Theologie op academisch niveau = niet studie in geloof

theologiestudie = confrontatie met alle facetten die mens eigen zijn: filosofie, geschiedenis, psychologie, religie en geloof

niet enkel Moslim bezig met spirituele vragen >> Spiritualiteit hoort bij de mens

.

Malakh Ahavah heeft geleerd hoe Joden, Moslims + andere gelovigen hun religie & geloof beleven + relatie tussen deze religies

Als student theoloog vooral leren denken + geschiedenis van denken onder de loep genomen

.

Theologie = geen bijbelstudie, al kan bijbelstudie er wel een deel van uitmaken.

+++

Save

Save

malakhahavah

Steeds meer profileert Maarten Boudry zich als de Richard Dawkins van de lage landen, waarmee ik hem niet wil complementeren met zijn intellect, dat wil ik in het midden laten, maar wel wil bekritiseren op zijn dogmatische houding als atheïstische evangelist tegenover religie.

Maarten Boudry zal in het collectieve geheugen van de theologie altijd bekend staan als die neptheoloog die ooit brieven stuurde naar enkel conferenties, vol onzin, die ten zeerste door het theologisch establishment werden serieus genomen. Een “grap” waarmee hij nog steeds fel te koop loopt gezien zijn bijdrage onlangs in De Standaard.

Nu heeft hij het weer gedaan; onlangs zond hij een tweet de wereld in, uiteraard zoals het een goede wetenschapper betaamd in de Wetenschappelijke taal Engels, (of was het om meer lezers te trekken?): “No self-respecting university should have a Faculty of Theology. Even a Faculty of Astrology would make more sense. At least stars…

View original post 680 more words